Every time I think I have people figured out, good or bad, someone comes along and surprises me. I should just realize it is an impossible task and learn to roll with the punches.
I had a very odd conversation with a co-worker the other day about gay rights, specifically about gay marriage. It was odd because we’d originally started out discussing my few experiences with women during my coming-out years. [1]Yes, I’ve been there done that. I gave the tshirt away though, so not for me. lol He abruptly switched the conversation by asking me how I felt about the current struggle for gay marriage.
Before I go on, let me give you a little background info. He is straight, a different racial background, and older by about 10 years. For the most part, he and I have always gotten along very well. He treats me with respect and I return the favor. To my discredit, I’ve always been a little wary of him though. Not because of anything he did but simply because I knew he was very religious. I’ve overheard some of his conversations with other co-workers over the years and had him pegged as a bit of a fundie. [2]short for “christian fundamentalist” And while I know that’s not necessarily a good thing, when you grow up in the bible belt listening to the holier-than-thou’s-but-often-ignorant-hypocrites preach about how awful you are and proclaiming your very existence will lead to the fall of man, you get a little defensive at times.
Anyway, back to the story. I told him I felt whole-heartedly the struggle was an honest and righteous one. Mentally, I’d already begun to compile my reply as I expected him to throw a bunch of misquote and miswritten scripture at me in defense of ‘traditional marriage’. To my total surprise, he actually agreed with me (with only a little caveat). While I’m sure he didn’t notice a thing, I was completely blown away. You could have sold me for a penny and got change back I was so surprised! And what had started as a passing conversation to alleviate boredom now had my complete attention!
He went on to tell me he believed gays should have all the legal rights afforded straights but that it shouldn’t be called a ‘marriage’. He felt very strongly marriage is a term deeply tied to religion. At that point in the conversation I was still reeling from surprise. Here I am thinking this guy, while always friendly, is probably actively voting to keep me a second class citizen and he is nothing of the sort. Even worse, he actually supports me! Talk about feeling like an ass. [3]We can talk about my projection issues another day. Anyway, we went on to basically agree on the subject in every way possible. I have a new found respect for my co-worker, to say the least. I’ve also dropped the preconceived notions I had of him. lol Teach me to be a doubting-Thomas.
*
As to the topic of our conversation, I’ve always thought [gays] should focus on the civil aspect and leave the term marriage by the curb. Granted, there will be many who will fight it regardless of what we call it, but that doesn’t mean we should be stupid about it. More people have been killed on this planet in the name of God(s) than all other atrocities in human history combined. Is it really feasible to think we can change people’s beliefs in the span of a few decades? That said, I honestly believe most human beings are decent and want to do the right thing. Trying to force acceptance thru “marriage” has always sent the wrong message IMHO and makes our struggle that much harder.
Many people don’t know that a marriage in a church isn’t legally binding until you’ve registered with the local county clerk’s office. So, while we might have blurred the lines between our civil and religious references to marriage, they are still completely separate under the law. We should have focused on that separation from the very beginning and stuck with it. We’d certainly be further along in our struggle for equality right now if we had. And if we really want to win this fight, we should redouble our efforts and focus on making the line between civil unions (straight and gay) and marriages very distinct, along with their distinctly different connotations.
Regardless, of our most recent setbacks, we will eventually see equality. The younger generation doesn’t care about the old prejudices and stereotypes. And as the older generations simply die off, change will happen. I am still hopeful it will happen in my lifetime.
The reason we're going for full on marriage is because it fits in the framework of federal law too.
That's why you don't see widespread adoption of the civil union term. And marriage, your co-worker really ought to know that the Christians didn't take up the marriage mantle until fairly late in the game, around the time of the Luther and his 95 theses.
My usual argument is growing up in this country, and hell anywhere, we are taught from those around us by example, to fairytales, that when you meet that one and fall in love, you get married, that is the ultimate commitment of love. Nobody taught us some of us can't get married, or have to get civil unionized or domestic partnerships 🙂 It might be semantics, but in the end, there is a reason some words mean something and others mean less. Gay . . . Faggot . . . they mean the same thing really, but one evokes strong emotions in most of us. We'd prefer to be called one over the other.
Oh Christians took up marriage actually from one of the Roman emperors when the empire converted, I am too lazy to google and too tipsy to remember off my head. Before then marriage was not a church issue, it was civil. It was set, as it had been for centuries, by the local cultures/township/village/etc What they decided was a marriage was.
I wanna say constantine, 3-4 hours later, and no I didn't google lol
From the 1st of November it’s possible for gay people to get married, and call it marriage, in Sweden. But some priests can deny this, even though I think they are in minority. The Swedish Church (Protestants) doesn’t see gay marriages as a disbelief of the Bible. The marriage between man and woman, as described in the Bible, is focusing at the love and respect between two people. Therefore it’s possible to get married in church (if wanted) with all the civil rights and so on. Before we had civil partnerships and we weren’t allowed to say that we were married. The big different is that we now can say “he’s my husband” (if I’m a gay man – which I am) instead of “he’s my partner”. The feeling of that is great (theoretically – I’m single), but as of civil rights there’s nothing different. Our civil partnerships already included the benefits of being married.
I agree w/all you say Mobes, regarding religion and marriage. I know it's all been said before, but it's always worth repeating.